General-Order

An excellent reference guide, but NOT comprehensive. The pictures are beautiful, detailed, in colour and comes in plenty - this is necessary for the serious collector. Their grading system (both concerning rarity and different variations) is usefull but NOT comprehensive. If you have travelled in Eastern Europe as a collector, you know much more about rarity and variations than they do. Furthermore, their variation-system is only really usefull if your counterpart has read the book. Say, does The Order of the Red Banner Variation 3, Type 2 means anything to you? Their rarity-system may be helpfull as a guideline - not as a fact. I'm not saying their information is incorrect, it's just that there is a difference between living in Europe and in the US. It's probably a matter of distance and therefore price and rarity. What is really good about this book is the information about the fakes. It's very usefull (and unfortunately VERY brief) but of course outdated the moment you get it. But again, use it as a guide - don't trust everything you read. Remember that your common sense is your most important tool. Conclusion: You will not find a lot of books on this subject in english so I recommend you buy it, while it's still in stock. At present it's the best buy on the market. If you consider buying it, remember to check their Newsletter with the latest updates (and it's allways about 2-3 months delayed) at Historicalresearch.com

The Comprehensive Guide to Soviet Orders and Medals is the bestbook on the market so far, and if you are a collector in this field, I strongly recommend you buy it. It's good - very good actually - but it's not comprehensive. McDaniel and Schmitt try to list all known different types and variations, and this is of course, almost impossible. But it's a start. And it's needed. Furthermore they illustrate their descriptions with very detailed pictures - that's excellent! The only problem with this kind of book is lack of information, but I'm sure they are working on it. Especially their information on fakes needs an update. In all case this is a book to buy...

Being a relative newcomer to collecting Soviet Militaria, but collecting German Militaria for years, I found the book to be the best all around book on medals that I have ever read. This book details in very clear color photographs the intricacies of the medals of the Soviet Union. I would recommend this book strongly for anyone who is interested in Soviet Militaria or even Militaria in general as it is an excellent resource book.

Fantastic book on how to sell through the mail, through magazine or newspaper advertisements, or through any type of media for that matter. Glad I read it.

The truth is that there is no difference between the foundation of running a mail order or internet business. The need for good sales copy, product presentation, and advertising are just as important in both businesses.
By studying how to make money in mail order you will also learn how to make money online, and you will be ahead of most people doing business on the internet who have never learned the basic skills needed to sell in distance selling.
I use the phrase distance selling because in both situations you are selling to people who have never met you for the most part, and do not have a chance to talk to you in person before making their purchasing decisions.
While the theme of this book is mail order its lessons and just as applicable to online selling.
If you don't know what a sales ratio is, or don't have a sales ratio of more than 1%, then you need to get serious and read this book.

Now that the hype surrounding the Internet has come back down to earth people are realizing that some of the so called old fashioned businesses are still the best way to make money.
Among these businesses, the mail order business is still a great way to make a solid amount of money. Because mail order requires a low start up cost it has been the preferred way for many people with limited resources to go into business.
Donny Lowy teaches his best selected techniques to help you start up a mail order business and to make money with it.

Nash-Marshall offers a quickly read, introductory book on Joan of Arc in the same history-and-meditation format at Mary Gordon's for Penguin. Most of the meditation is in the last two chapters, some of it a bit weird. The author believes that the source of Joan's power must have been God, because if Joan had been the source of her own power she would have found a way to escape from prison in Rouen. Nash-Marshall's Joan is a "doer" and an "energetic warrior," in seeming disagreement with the Chapu marble Joan in repose on the book jacket (see p. 168). Typos ("Crepy" for the big battle at "Crecy") and curious sentences like the one in which Joan convinced soldiers to "live without the female attachments to which medieval armies were assuaged" suggest some of the difficulties with this book.

Finally,a story teller opf depth...one whose clarity and understanding are the equal of her poetry. Certainly the entertaiment value of Ms Nash Marshall's "Spiritual Biography" of Joan of Arc will have its place,and won't leave anything of the bitter after taste of one who spends his time passing his time... but the life and case of Maid Joan, as told here, brings us something lasting. The author reveasls the master hand of the historian as she tells of the times and situation of the pulcelle of Domremy. Her tale leaves us with an exquisite background to our own age... how much more easily is the utopianism of our days to be seen as the dismal failure that it is... as well as the catastrophic attempts of the collectivists, with their socialism and communism and whatever... in the light of the idea brought to us today by a 17 years old farmer girl who knew, similarly in an age of little faith, that her nation might have a sacred cause, if it would only accept it, and be able to live the human, the holy life by it.

We live without the light of a maid who believed and was sure of the fact.

Congratulations, and thank you, Ms. Nash-Marshall. Our world, we hope, will be a less vague and frightening place for your recalling the work of Joan.

Sonia, Gaia & Sophie

A relatively short biography -"Joan of Arc: A Spiritual Biography" by Siobhan Nash-Marshall is a marvelous first book for someone wanting to read about Joan of Arc. It is not as intimidating as some of the larger tomes. While reverential, it is not, as the title might suggest, unquestioning in its acceptance of a divine origin of Joan's mission. It is intelligent, entertaining and easy to read.

I am not a scholar but the book looks solidly researched and no errors jumped out at me. Ms. Nash-Marshall's theme is that Joan is a "questor". Her success was due to the extraordinarily intense focus she had on her mission to the exclusion of all else. Joan believed down to the very core of her being that her mission was from God and that her voices were of divine origin. The book is a good solid well-written account of what we know of Joan. The last chapter offers an intriguing premise I had not seen before. It first dealt with the question why it might be important to God for France to be a nation and to reinforce the divine origin of the French crown. This assumes Joan's mission was a success and God's plans for France and Europe generally came to pass.

As we all know Joan was betrayed. Perhaps small shortsighted men thwarted God's real plans. I think the book offers another interpretation of what God's plan might have been. The Hundred Years war drained much of the energy of Western Christendom to aid Constantinople. The author states: "The Hundred Years' War ended in the very same year that Constantinople fell. In 1453, one nation was saved and one perished." What if a France under Joan's banner had been victorious and ended the war in France and against England. In the early 1440s, John VIII, emperor of Constantinople tried to bring about an end to the Great Schism. He went to Florence and at the end of a council there decreed that the Eastern Church give its oath of obedience to Rome. The author writes: "He had, he felt, done his part. The West would have to fight to protect its own kindred in faith. And what ensued is one of the most tragic episodes in our history. The West did virtually nothing." If The Hundred Years' war had ended between these two great powers of the West in the 1430s, could they not have saved Byzantium from the Turks, ended the Great Schism, resulting in an invigorated and more diverse Church? A stronger more diverse church might not have been so insecure and frightened of heretics and both the horrors of the Inquisition and the Christian civil wars of the Reformation might not have been. Nash-Marshall points out that two years before she died; Joan invited the English to participate in a crusade:

"You, Duke of Bedford, the Maid begs and requires of you that you discontinue the destruction. If you grant her right, you may still come into her company where the French shall do the greatest feat of arms that was ever done for Christianity . . . "

As if the tragedy for that young girl was not enough, Ms. Nash-Marshal implies that the implications to Christianity of what they did to that child of God in Rouen are enormous. Her mission had just begun . . . " . . . the French shall do the greatest feat of arms that was ever done for Christianity . . . "

Read the book!

leon

The Praetorian Guard purports to tell the secrets of what the US government is really doing in the world and why. The author is ex-CIA and uses his inside knowledge to tell stories of what goes on in the world-behind-the-scenes. And they are interesting stories, certainly. He especially dwells on what are in his views the evils of the Reagan and Bush (1st Bush) administrations. He does mention activities before the Reagan era, but his disgust and dislike of the politics of both Reagan and Bush make his writing into more of a rant against those two than against world destabilization. One gets the feeling that he would still be in favor of all the secret dealings in the world if only they favored his own political objectives. That may be completely wrong and Mr. Stockwell may indeed be against these activities in general, but if so he spent a little too much of his anger directly on Reagan and Bush. Not that they are blameless.
When I picked up this book, I expected something much more "scholarly" than what I got. Perhaps that is my fault. I expected more time to be spent on the Why's of all this covert activity. I expected more revelation as to the motivations and direction or these top policy makers. Instead I got stories. Certainly, some of the subject matter is supposed to be secret and undocumentable, but there was plenty of mention of activities which were and are documentable. Mr. Stockwell's credibility in the book would have been much improved if he had included documentation for those things where it was available.
The author makes the claim that the CIA has had many books published to favor their own agendas. I am left wondering if this book itself was written and published under the same program. The stories contained therein are certainly plausible, and I believe much of it. But as the author well knows, a little truth makes for the best lies. The reader is left wondering how much to believe, and I am sure will believe only what their previous political inclinations let them believe.
I am a bit baffled by the 5 stars reviews previously posted. Perhaps my hopes were too high when I began reading this book. It is interesting and worth a good read. It is written well enough to be read in a couple of days. It is not a five star book, however.

I knew John right about the time he wrote this book and also met his family. The reviewer who suggested that he might be part of a CIA program in writing this book is way, way off. This man has put himself (and his family) in a very scary position and he deserves a lot of credit for coming out with the truths he knows. I knew him and did some work for him for about a year and I also knew someone else that had known him for decades. John Stockwell deserves many kudos for his courage and integrity in coming out with what he knows. You can believe the book. I hope he will come out with more.

This book explains the intricate, intense, and often unjustified involvement of the CIA in many parts of the world, through thousands of covert operations, which, according to the book and other sources, have ended the lifes of millions of people. It describes secret and obscure operations, some of which entailed the killing of people by the thousands at Angola, and others such as the one which overthrew the first democratic government in Guatemala, and the creation of the infamous "death squads" in that country and El Salvador, to murder civilians and seed terror among the people. All orchestrated by our CIA, apparently in the name of national interests. I will not say much about this, because I urge you to read the book, but many of these operations were bloody, bloody, bloody, and they were emphatically denied at official briefings to the Congress, which, needless to say, is a felony.

Stockwell goes deep, and he surely has bases to do it. He is the highest rank CIA official ever to go public. And even though this book has been censored, you still can get pretty much information from it. You will realize that most of the time, the CIA hasn't really had fair motives to carry out the operations. The real interests behind all of it are completely different from the picture that we get from the news and the official reports from our government. Reading this one will make you end up with a sad feeling after having been shown the bitterness of reality. It will make you wonder about which has been our true government, and you will want to ask if all our "liberties" and "freedoms" have been paid at the cost of millions of innocent children, women, and men from all over the world.

Be careful! I bought this book with the misunderstanding it covered Golden Dawn magick. It does not. It does have a eleven page chapter on rituals that you don't need because you could find the same ones using a web search. BUT, it is an excellent history book about the Golden Dawn organization. So if you are looking for background and history I recommend this one. If you are interested in practical magick look elsewhere.

Whilst before I read books by the notorious occult group that covered rituals as in Z-5 and their Kabbalah, this book covers its basic belief system and history. I really enjoyed the parts on Aleister Crowley. The Golden Dawn is for serious students of the occult with a sense of humor. The Golden Dawn is the most mature and least trendy of the great occult groups, the opposite is true of the Church of Satan- grossly immature and trendy as hell.

The Golden Dawn's magkical system is probably the most famous of all Western esoteric traditions. This simple, down-to-earth book explains what it is, its history, how it works and it offers the reader an introduction to the basic ritual work.

It investigates the sources of the Western tradition and the roots of Hermeticism. The authors' account of the history of the Order of the Golden Dawn and its colourful founders is very thorough and makes for engaging reading.

The book clearly illustrates the principles and philosophies of high magick and explains its laws in a straightforward manner. In addition, it covers all of the various areas of magkical knowledge and provides plenty of Golden Dawn rituals for the newcomer.

I also recommend Israel Regardie's Garden Of Pomegranates: Skrying On The Tree Of Life, edited and annotated by Chic Cicero and Sandra Tabatha Cicero. This is a classic work on the Qabalah for the more advanced student.

As an alternative to the Golden Dawn tradition, I recommend the book Foundations Of High Magick by Melita Denning and Osborne Phillips. This is the best work explaining the theory and practice of Art Magick, the venerable Ogdoadic tradition which differs markedly from the Golden Dawn.

The Essential Golden Dawn contains several appendices, a glossary of terms, an extensive bibliography and a thorough index.

Not sure it will make you a poet. But good intentions don't always lead to the subway. Heck, if he had read his own book, would he have written "Paradise Lost"? As Pierre Menard said (in Spanish), I am competing with Cervantes. The influence of Harold Bloom is nowhere less felt. Put your anxiety aside and spill your drink into the face of the loudmouth begging for it. Is that a prescription for poetry. Maybe not, but until a better one comes along, I'll stick with the best (thank you, Samuel Taylor Coleridge).

These essays are amazing -- the most brilliant, thorough, painstaking essays on poetry I have ever read. Dobyns, who long ago got his MFA from Iowa University, the finest institution for graduate poetry, & now teaches in Boston, knows poetry through & through & wants his readers to as well. In this book he teaches about so many aspects of the highest poetry, how much the words have inside them, & does it in a way perfect for the reader (or for me anyway) to learn from so well. He considers poems throughout in order to illustrate concepts he's writing about, & the book closes with chapters on 3 20th century masters: Ritsos, Rilke, & Mandelstam, & the penultimate chapter about the intricate bestness of a poem of Dobyns's own. I wouldn't consider this a how-to book so much as a keep-this-in-mind-while-you-invent book. Essential essays.

This book will surely not serve to make its reader a master poet, but it is a very interesting read for anyone who cares about the high art of poetry. Anyone who's fairly new to poetry & wants to know more sbout it, about some ways to think of the words, really ought to read this book. Beyond that, it's enjoyable anyway to read someoned else's thoughts on poetry, poems, & the act of writing.

You'll love the themes of this book if you are on the left, you'll hate it if you are on the right. If you are in the middle, however, cousin John's writing style will leave you parched and reaching for water.

This book is unlikely to change anyone's mind about the current Administration's foreign policy. John is an ex-Clintonian and that informs his perspective. He is also a Foggy Bottom traditionalist. The problem with his critique is that what he focuses on is the revolutionary changes that the new administration has wrought on our foreign policy. The Bush administration is, unlike previous ones, committed to revolution. Their belief is that the current state of affairs abroad, especially in the middle east, are unsustainable and contrary to our national interest. If you accept that premise, then the correct approach to US foreign policy is regime change.

The upshot to all of that is that John is focused upon the process with out really addressing, at length and in depth, the ideology underlying the process.

And did I mention that this book is slow reading?

In a nutshell, this book will not change anyone's mind.

This is an excellent book criticizing Bush foreign policy. It includes excellent profiles of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Powell. It captures excellent geopolitical analysis of Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea. It also covers the impact of the neo conservatives policies.

Colin Powell, Secretary of State, is the only one earning the author respect. Powell is a balanced, thoughtful, intelligent, and patient centrist. He has exceptional knowledge on issues. He is the most popular Secretary of State we ever had. Because he is isolated within a conservative administration, Powell has not been able to fulfill his potential. On most issues, he is at the loosing end, while being usually right.

Dick Cheney, Vice President, is the most powerful Vice President, the U.S. ever had. He is very intelligent, and domineering. He is an harsh conservative. He operates through confidential communication with the President that no one else is privy too. As a result, his intent is almost impossible to overcome.

Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense, is the opposite of Powell. He is loud, impatient, arrogant, and constantly overreaches on issues. The gap between the State Department and the Defense Department has never been wider. The Defense Department has preempted the State Department on foreign policies resulting in a radical shift to the right. Rumsfeld is very intelligent and cunning. This makes him a formidable nemesis for Powell.

The author is most critical of Bush. He knows little about foreign affairs. He is not intellectually curious. He has less knowledge of history than most other presidents. Regarding the Israel-Palestinian conflict, an official mentioned that "he does not have the knowledge or the patience to learn this issue enough to have an end destination in mind."

The Iraqi invasion was ill advised. Iraq has little to do with terrorism. Hussein and Islamic terrorist networks had diverging objectives. Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction. Between 1991 and 1998, UN inspectors destroyed Iraqis nukes. But, the Administration became obsessed with regime change. Yet, the Administration lacks the necessary planning, and commitment of time and money the regime change entails. After WWII, the occupation of Japan lasted seven years, and Germany ten years. These societies were far less fractious than Iraq. It could take over 10 years to stabilize Iraq. Lawrence Lindsay, Bush first Economic Advisor, stated the cost of the Iraqi regime change will be $100 to $200 billion. After this statement, he was ousted. His estimate may be too low.

For the author, Iran represents the best hope of stabilizing the volatile Middle East. Iran has its own history and natural borders (not fabricated by the West). It has free election, and rising pro Western reformers. The Bush administration should support Iran undergo its internal transformation. Instead, he notes that Bush has made Iran a member of the "Axis of Evil." Bush frequent reference to this "Axis of Evil" has strengthened Iran hardliners. Bush aggressive attitude towards Iran contributes to further destabilizing the region. Rumsfeld is also bent on confronting Iran militarily. Thus, relationship with Iran has fallen apart. However, Iran is associated with serious policy issues that even a Democratic President could not ignore. These include Iran's ongoing nuclear program that is being supported directly by Russia. Also, Iran supports financially several terrorist groups aiming their terror towards Israel. These include the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, and Hizbollah.

Pakistan is the most dangerous country; yet, it is an ally. The author convincingly suggests that the Bush administration often has it wrong in selecting allies and foes. The Pakistan India border is the most volatile region in the World. Twice in the 12 months after 9/11, the two countries threatened to go to war. This is a frightening thought considering the nuclear arsenal these countries have on both side of the Kashmir. Despite General Musharraf stand against the Taliban and al-Qaeda, his army provides terrorist groups with training camps and weapons. Two provinces are controlled by Taliban and al Qaeda sympathizers. Pakistan madrassas schools are breeding grounds of Islamic terrorists. Pakistan and North Korea have exchanged complimentary components of their respective nuclear technology. Thus, Pakistan is a powder keg. It should not be treated as an ally.

North Korea is a bankrupt country relying on foreign aid for its survival. Russia has assisted its nuclear program development. North Korea has sold nuclear technology to Iran and Pakistan. This is the only export it has. Their nuclear program is advanced, as they have tested a missile with a range of over 1,000 miles that flew over Japan. The government has attempted to negotiate a nonadversarial "Agreed Framework" with the U.S. for a decade. Clinton had done great progress on this issue. But, Bush interrupted all related negotiations. And, his "Axis of Evil" speeches have halted any diplomatic development. As a result, the North Koreans have developed their nuclear program more urgently.

In the authors view, the neo conservatives unilateral policies have destabilized the World Order. The European Union is more fragmented and Anti-American. Both the UN and NATO are ailing. Actual attention to terrorism has suffered due to the obsession with regime change with the 'Axis of Evil' states. As expressed before, such foreign policies will do little in reducing terrorism.

As a Briton married to an American, and who is deemed an Honorary Virginian by marriage, I love the USA! But sad to say, I am in an increasing minority over in Europe where I spend much of the year. Yet after 9/11 there were headlines in French newspapers proclaiming "Nous sommes tous Americains". Why did the great and very genuine outpouring of love to the USA after the tragedy of 9/11 vanish into smoke? Why do MORE people hate your wonderful country than ever before? This book gives you the chilling answers: buy it, read it, digest it, give copies to all your friends and then vote accordingly in 2004. You are a great country and deserve to be loved - make sure you elect someone whose priority will be to restore the USA to its rightful place as the most deservedly well-loved of the world's nations. Christopher Catherwood, author of CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS AND ISLAMIC RAGE (Zondervan, 2003)

Essentially this is an anti-feminist tract. The center of the book is Mary Ann Moffatt, variously refered to as Moffatt and (her name in religious life) Madame St. George. Based on a single letter written by a disaffected and ambitious nun in September, 1837, three years after the attempt to murder the nuns and their young students, Schultz describes Moffatt as a proven alcoholic and implies lesbian affections. Moffatt is repeatedly described from the point of view of the homicidal mob as a "termagant," unfeminine, led into unlimited ambition by the regrettable decision of the Catholic Church to allow women education and leadership roles! Schultz also implies that since a male teacher married one of his students, they had certainly had premarital sexual intercourse and at least one child born in the convent! Proof? None needed for the prejudiced.

The book is badly written. In her haste to be lurid but not just, Schultz confuses names. She calls a woman at one time by her birth name, at another by her name in religion. She skips back and forth. She rarely examines evidence. She is remarkably unfamiliar with Catholic practice, and calls ordinary prayers for the recovery of a dying nun "frenetic rituals" and "dangerous superstition."

The hero of Schultz' book is John Buzzell, the brave bricklayer who led a Boston mob to attack a few women and 50 young girls aged 6 to 14 (40 of the children Protestants) on an August night. Since the intended murder victims escaped the flames, he and his companions looted and burned the buildings, and desecrated the bodies of dead nuns. Acquitted by a Boston court, he was subsequently elected to the New Hampshire legislature for his abilities in arson, racism, and religious bigotry. He died at 90, still bragging of his attempted murder of "the sauciest woman I ever heard talk."

Although Professor Schultz is an Englsh professor,her
work is like every good writer of popular history- meticulously
researched and very well writen. Fire and Roses is a page turner from start to finish.

A WELL CRAFTED HISTORICAL READ! I WAS ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH THE EVENTS SURROUNDING THE TRAGEDY AT THE URSULINE CONVENT BUT WAS STRUCK MOST BY SCHULTZ'S POWER OF TRANSPORTING THE READER BACK TO THAT TIME, THAT CONVENT, TO THE UNSPEAKABLE ATROICITY INFLICTED BY THE HANDS OF THE ARSONISTS. SCHULTZ'S DECISION TO BRING THIS HISTORICALLY RELEVANT STORY TO THE MASSES IS BOTH BRILLIANT & INSPIRING!

Glory, an orphan of sorts herself, flees a disagreeable home and town, only to find she really doesn't fit in much anyplace. After Poppy dies, she is sought by wicked Uncle Amos. Fleeing, she has to defend her virtue, bearing the guilt of what she left behind. If there is anything wagon master Lincoln does not need, it is another girl to have to care for and transport to his final destination. Stubborn, unlearned and unkempt, Glory is determined to make it on her own. Mystery, action and romance happen in spite of Glory, certainly not because of her.

After the wonderful story of "Hope" I tore into "Glory" like a hungry wolf tears into its prey. Glory, a sheltered mountain girl, is forced to build a life on her own after her Poppy dies. With a bagful of gold and no change of clothes, she sets out in search of a new life. Far too naive for the cold world before her, she ends up on the run from a greedy uncle who wants her gold -- and who will kill her to get it. When she manages to latch on (however unwillingly) to a wagonneer named Jackson and a group of teenaged mail order brides, things REALLY get interesting. In her travels and adventures, Glory grows into a beautiful young woman with an unshakeable faith -- but will her faith be enough to win the heart of the handsome wagonneer? Copeland's "Glory" was glorious. This one's a MUST READ.

GREAT FOR YOUNG READERS, I have read all of the Brides series. This one was wonderful. P L E A S E write more books like this.

The use of the word 'interesting' seems to be inappropriate for this book. For me as a Catholic the life of monasticism is still full of secret. Actually this book is a mere description of the rule of St Benedict as the title suggests and sometimes they are too strict and outdated. It requires a very high obedience standard from the monks and some of them are unreasonable for this era. Probably from historic viewpoint these rules make sense, but definitely not now. This book is still recommended, however, to those who are interested in sixth century's monasticism history and development.

This edition starts with a helpful introduction of Lectio Divina reading (read, meditate, rest in God, govern one's actions) by the editors. Thomas Moore (Care for the Soul) then presents the "rule" not as an edict but as a measure for spiritual progress. He states monks have a sense of humor, but his Franciscan past is probably more open than Benedict's "only a fool raises his voice in laughter". According to the "rule" a lot depends upon the abbot, and the monk must accept the abbot's ruling, fair or not, as an exercise in obedience and prayer.

I think the rule has relevance even to a modern, non-monastic Christian life, by offering a model of rhythm and simplicity. In this time of shaken confidence, the twelve steps of humility is a refreshing thought. The rule presents a challenge to the modern to "Renounce yourself in order to follow Christ".

This book has great value, not just as an historical artifact, but as a way to live one's life, both inside and outside the Cloister. I don't thing there is a single monastery today that follows all of the Rule "religiously". They all adapt the Rule to local circumstances, just as Benedict suggested, and just as Benedict himself did with existing Rules. This includes dietary and disciplinary regulations.

It is, however, helpful to have a guidebook such as Chittister's or de Wall's, in order to understand how the Rule is applied, and what wisdome people have found in it who have actually lived under its strictures for years and even decades. That will help the reader understand what value there is in the Rule.